# Our Invest & ISA services are profitable **URL:** \ **Category:** šŸ“Š Investing\ **Created:** [January 5, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916 "2021-01-05T12:42:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alpha](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/alpha/32/3105_2.png) [@Alpha](https://community.trading212.com/u/Alpha)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/44 "2021-01-05T16:55:59Z")
> [@saifali](#): > > telling them Your reading comprehension and verbal literacy skills are way off on thisā€¦ I didnā€™t know ā€œpleaseā€ equated to an order, silly me I must have misunderstood pleading for commanding. > [@saifali](#): > > you misunderstand their business model. False. I would have quoted exec @ivan himself on this but his posts and profile appear to have been erased. Anyway, Iā€™ll chalk this one down to a misunderstanding. Well done Trading212, continue to democratise investing. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Cashurkash](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/cashurkash/32/2350_2.png) [@Cashurkash](https://community.trading212.com/u/Cashurkash)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/45 "2021-01-05T17:41:06Z")
You have a multitude of currencies you can use and can load via chooses currency šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![RLX](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/rlx/32/7051_2.png) [@RLX](https://community.trading212.com/u/RLX)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/46 "2021-01-05T17:45:18Z")
First of all, congrats for all the work done. Itā€™s a well deserved prize to Trading 212 and his great team! > [@Tony.V](#): > > Just bear with us - we have prepared tons of cool stuff for 2021. Would be nice, to have a **thread that aggregates all features on the T212 pipeline** , so we donā€™t repeat ourselves asking the same things all the time and bother T212 team with the same old things. (Perhaps a pinned thread.) It would improve the communication and get all the investors and Trading 212 more involved. PS: I know that some details couldnā€™t be revealed, such as the ETA, or shouldnā€™t be revealed, as secrets are the soul of the business. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Vedran](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/vedran/32/182_2.png) [@Vedran](https://community.trading212.com/u/Vedran)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/47 "2021-01-05T18:00:21Z")
I had this idea last year in Jan. Never got the traction. We got feedback initially, but no follow-up. > [@T212 future/roadmap](https://community.trading212.com/t/t212-future-roadmap/534): > > Hi T212 Team, Firstly, great work on running this community, replying was very prompt and informative. I would like to ask, if in future, you might share roadmap with community? Near/long term? Also some weekly/monthly updates for us to see what the future brings, goals etc. More involving community to produce clearer image of road ahead, milestone features etc. Ps: timelines are not the goal, rather visibility on what features are high/low priority. What can we look forward to etc ---
**Author:** ![Elijah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@Elijah](https://community.trading212.com/u/Elijah)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:01pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/48 "2021-01-05T18:01:43Z")
Would love to see this! ---
**Author:** ![RLX](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/rlx/32/7051_2.png) [@RLX](https://community.trading212.com/u/RLX)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/49 "2021-01-05T18:09:03Z")
Yep, it was a good idea, but as you said, never got the well-deserved traction. A official centralized communication policy on some subjects will be a plus. First thing to put on the Trading 212 Pipeline Features, creating a Trading 212 Pipeline Features Thread. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Supraman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Supraman](https://community.trading212.com/u/Supraman)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/50 "2021-01-05T18:17:42Z")
Congratulations @Tony.V and the rest of @Team212 on ISA & INVEST being profitable! Can somebody (who actually knows) remind me how Trading 212 make money on ISA & INVEST? Iā€™ve read a lot of speculation on the subject and I believed that it was subsidised by CFD. How is the profitability of CFD? ---
**Author:** ![Elijah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@Elijah](https://community.trading212.com/u/Elijah)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/51 "2021-01-05T18:30:47Z")
That would interest me too ISA maybe profitable via spreads? ---
**Author:** ![Supraman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Supraman](https://community.trading212.com/u/Supraman)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/52 "2021-01-05T18:34:48Z")
> [@Elijah](#): > > maybe via spreads? I recall that @David said something about it being illegal to manipulate the spreads, at least on the ISA platform. I think ISA uses the ā€œbase spreadā€. If thatā€™s true, then thatā€™s not a profit source. For ISA, I can only think of commission on exchange rates and/or bank interest on uninvested cash. For INVEST, I know that they make money by lending our shares for the purposes of shorting. Could that be enough to cover both services? ---
**Author:** ![kannaiah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@kannaiah](https://community.trading212.com/u/kannaiah)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/53 "2021-01-05T18:45:10Z")
Congratulations šŸ„³ I had 490 trades since March, 2020, the savings made are huge, not just commissions but fx charges as I mostly buy US stocks. I know I should not have made those many trades. I havenā€™t yet calculated turnover to see how much I have saved on FX. Kudos to @Team212 If Iā€™m in T212 marketing I push for adding a feature to enable sharing savings made over some period of time. ---
**Author:** ![RLX](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/rlx/32/7051_2.png) [@RLX](https://community.trading212.com/u/RLX)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/54 "2021-01-05T18:45:27Z")
> [@Supraman](#): > > For INVEST, I know that they make money by lending our shares for the purposes of shorting. Could that be enough to cover both services? In some popular rocket/FOMO stocks could be enough. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![kannaiah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@kannaiah](https://community.trading212.com/u/kannaiah)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/55 "2021-01-05T18:46:33Z")
I thought ISA shares too were up for lending but I have not idea. ---
**Author:** ![RLX](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/rlx/32/7051_2.png) [@RLX](https://community.trading212.com/u/RLX)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/56 "2021-01-05T18:48:37Z")
> [@Supraman](#): > > For ISA, I can only think of commission on exchange rates and/or bank interest on uninvested cash. Selling the order flow, perhaps? Both on ISA and on Invest accounts. šŸ˜‰ > **[Payment for order flow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_for_order_flow)** > > Payment for order flow (PFOF) is the compensation that a stockbroker receives from a market maker in exchange for the broker routing its clients' trades to that market maker. It is a controversial practice that has been called a "kickback" by its critics. Policymakers supportive of PFOF and several people in finance who have a favorable view of the practice have defended it for helping develop new investment apps, low-cost trading, and more efficient execution. > In general, market makers like Cit... ---
**Author:** ![CavanHaganInvesting](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/cavanhaganinvesting/32/18536_2.png) [@CavanHaganInvesting](https://community.trading212.com/u/CavanHaganInvesting)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/57 "2021-01-05T19:02:34Z")
Had to be subsidised until share lending was introduced which I think pushed it over to profitable for the first time as this post says: 1. Share lending (Invest account only): lending the shares owned by the clients to people wanting to short the stock. Trading 212 earns a fee for lending out these shares. 2. Bank interest (Invest and possibly ISA): any cash in your account is held in a bank account which earns interest. Trading 212 keeps this interest which is pure profit. I donā€™t think thereā€™s any other means of monetising the accounts as I say. Spread is just the market spread, and thereā€™s no other fees, other than deposit fees on most methods which is a cost cover rather than revenue generating. When a subscription account is added this will make them even more profitable. ---
**Author:** ![ryan9921](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@ryan9921](https://community.trading212.com/u/ryan9921)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/58 "2021-01-05T19:04:35Z")
> [@RLX](#): > > Selling the order flow, perhaps? Theyā€™ve already said they do not do this. ---
**Author:** ![Elijah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@Elijah](https://community.trading212.com/u/Elijah)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/59 "2021-01-05T19:06:49Z")
Damnnn you just made me realize you can do this o\_O That would be so mean ---
**Author:** ![Eden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Eden](https://community.trading212.com/u/Eden)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/60 "2021-01-05T19:28:42Z")
You cannot sell order flow in the UK ---
**Author:** ![Richard.W](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@Richard.W](https://community.trading212.com/u/Richard.W)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/61 "2021-01-05T19:47:02Z")
What would you estimate, back of envelope? 1. Interest on cash. 2B, perhaps 5% of that is cash earning 0.5%. That is just 0.5m. 2. Share lending. Maybe 5% of the 2B can be loaned out at 4% (half of what IBKR charges). This is 4m. How many staff, on what average salary? IT costs? Banking costs? Cost of answering clients complaining about delayed dividend payments, etc? My figures are wild guesses. Perhaps too generous. Is that enough? ---
**Author:** ![Vedran](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/community.trading212.com/vedran/32/182_2.png) [@Vedran](https://community.trading212.com/u/Vedran)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/62 "2021-01-05T19:57:40Z")
> [@Richard.W](#): > > How many staff, on what average salary? IT costs? What is marginal cost of serving a client? > > My figures are wild guesses. Perhaps too generous. Is that enough? Here is the 2019 financial report. Might give some clues. Source: > **[TRADING 212 UK LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information -...](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08590005/filing-history)** > > TRADING 212 UK LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity Direct download: [https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08590005/filing-history/MzI3NTQ0ODk2MmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0](https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08590005/filing-history/MzI3NTQ0ODk2MmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0) ---
**Author:** ![Zrtz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Zrtz](https://community.trading212.com/u/Zrtz)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916/63 "2021-01-05T20:14:09Z")
@Tony.V **Promise us right here and now that should T212 decides to have an IPO we should get some free shares as we all made T212 what it is today šŸ˜‰** [Previous page](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916.md?page=2) [Next page](https://community.trading212.com/t/our-invest-isa-services-are-profitable/34916.md?page=4)