Unusually large spreads

Short position opened:

As price goes higher (against my trade position), spreads becomes smaller --> Loss gets smaller
As price goes lower (toward my trade position), spreads becomes bigger --> Loss gets bigger

I am just wondering how big the spread could potentially become if market continues going toward my position?

3 screenshots in less than 10 seconds!

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I’m bemused as to why no one is telling us why the spread is being kept so high !

Seriously, this is crazy

I just did experiment in practice accounts. Sold 1000 Cineworld and then immediately closed. Lost £11.80. Did the same thing in IG practice account, lost £28 (including £10 transaction fee each way). Did same with Plus 500, lost £27.

The difference is that IG and Plus 500 also allowed me to go long. Trading 212 has 0 long available.

With bigger position of 10000. IG would have lost me £100, whereas T212 would lost £118.

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some links to other post which may assist. unfortunately there are a lot of post about wide spreads, staff have replied with the same answer.

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This is interesting information. Thanks for gathering it together. I think I need to get my head around this if I’m going to continue trading on the CFD platform.

  • Does the concept of “floating” and “fixed” modes for spreads only apply to CFD? If so, how do spreads work for ISA/INVEST?
  • Are these “floating” and “fixed” modes for the spread set at an individual instrument level or are they set globally for all instruments?
  • Are all instruments set to “fixed” mode subject to exactly the same spread percentage? What is that percentage?
  • Are all instruments set to “floating” mode subject to exactly the same spread percentage? What is that percentage?
  • Is there a way to determine what mode an instrument is currently using?
  • Is it possible to see a graph of the spread over time for an individual instrument in ISA/INVEST and/or CFD?
  • What are my options for seeing the “base spread”? Does ISA/INVEST use the base spread directly (i.e. no markup)?

Finally, @David, can you provide an example, using actual figures, of how the two modes would be applied to real world examples please?

I think as the users here continue to trade and their trading knowledge starts to increase exponentially, they are eventually going to want answers to these sorts of questions. Especially if they want to plan trades at an OCD level like the pro Youtube guys.

Situations like the recent “Spreadening” and random shifting of goalposts will make this difficult. Difficult enough that they may jump ship.

It makes me wonder if that’s a legitimate and intended customer journey. Noobies join T212, get good at trading, and eventually realize it’s difficult to trade on the platform due to the randomly changing rules. They move somewhere else like Interactive Brokers where they’re at a level they can handle IB’s fee structure in return for more stationary goalposts. By then T212 would have made some profit off them, and they’ll be replaced by a fresh batch of new traders anyway to repeat the cycle.

There are obviously some users who join up, try CFD (sometimes by accident) then go onto ISA or Invest. They won’t care. Maybe that’s the majority. Who knows.

What has become obvious after the big incident though is that there are many more CFD traders here than I thought. They exploded out of nowhere during the panic. Many of them thinking that they own actual shares too.

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This issue seems to really have been overshadowed by the margin changes. I hope more people bring this up/hope this gets addressed formally.

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100%, this and the increase in swap interest

@Supraman i believe one of the links said the spread was fixed/floating via a percentage, and seems to be activated when prices rapidly increase/decrease/volume etc. i recall reading somewhere on the forum via staff that ISA spreads (possibly Invest too) couldn’t be tampered with as it’s illegal, please forgive me if i’m wrong. It would be ideal to see the mark-up difference prior to buying/selling, i believe @pipo also suggested the same a couple of months back.

@Brissles1 I believe the spread has been addressed formally due to the post, and there’s been an update on the website 6 days ago https://helpcentre.trading212.com/hc/en-us/articles/360008614817-What-is-spread-and-how-it-works-

I still don’t understand how spreads becomes so large (possibly floating?), Zoom is a perfect example with a $55 spread despite the buy/sell price.

I requested details on the future plans for the CFD platform from staff, as the current model didn’t appear to want to maintain customers. As @pipo explained, it would make sense if it was a beginners CFD experience, then move elsewhere, as i yet to hear from a professional which would use a free trading platform long term, as all have said spreads/execution/limited stocks cost them more than fees.
I also read by a Leader that T212 have plans to charge fees on the CFD platform to reduce spreads… but i haven’t read this from a staff member.

One thing for sure is the Forum needs to be changed to allow important staff information to be pinned/have a dedicated section which users can divert people to, and save T212 staff from repeating information, as the replies on post can go in the 100’s so it’s hard to find information if you’re not on the website daily.

This was recently debated topic between regular users and leaders.

But conclusion is, people will post first, ask questions later. Sad story… :coffee:

That’s a good line! :laughing:

There is no additional spread T212 on Invest or ISA (just the normal spread from the difference in buy/sell prices).

On CFDs T212 (or any broker) can and do set the spreads to deliver their profits and manage their risk profile.

Just please let me buy long positions in CFD, that is all I ask.
leverage decreased to 1:2.
what kind of market risk are you people talking about?.

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So you don’t trade then

The answer is in the post you replied to :wink:

What app are you using on the right? Sorry if you’ve already mentioned it.

Also, it seems to only be showing a single price of 10.45. Is that what I’ve heard referred to as the “mid-market price”? If so, I’ve always assumed that was exactly halfway between the buy and sell price. Is that right? Certainly, 10.45 is close to being midway between 8.06 and 13.06, although the differences are 2.39 and 2.61 respectively. Can this difference be explained by fluctuations by the timing of your screenshots, or is there some other explanation? For example, could a broker apply different spread percentages for the buy and sell sides so that the broker’s mid-point and the base mid-point don’t align?