Bed and Breakfast help

I’m in Bed and Breakfast hell thanks to myself and trading too often on the phone.

I have acquired and sold shares a few times and I’m not too sure how to report this one…

Shares Price Total
30/09/2020 SELL 86 3.3 283.8
30/09/2020 SELL 2 3.2 6.4
17/09/2020 BUY 50 3 150
10/09/2020 SELL 25 2.9 72.5
10/09/2020 BUY 41 2.5 102.5
08/09/2020 BUY 11 2.5 27.5
08/09/2020 BUY 11 2.5 27.5

In this other real example I have acquired 510 shares in different operations, then sold the 510 then bought 1433 and added more… again a cellphone app mess but how would I proceed for this too ?

Shares Price Total
18/03/2021 SELL 1238 0.333 412.25
10/03/2021 SELL 700 0.335 234.50
25/02/2021 BUY 331 0.302 99.96
22/02/2021 BUY 174 0.287 49.94
12/02/2021 BUY 1433 0.279 399.81
29/01/2021 SELL 191 0.256 48.90
28/01/2021 SELL 191 0.267 51.00
05/01/2021 SELL 128 0.244 31.23
21/12/2020 BUY 116 0.257 29.81
01/12/2020 BUY 118 0.252 29.74
19/11/2020 BUY 127 0.235 29.85
09/11/2020 BUY 123 0.203 24.97
09/11/2020 BUY 26 0.200 5.20

If you could help with those two calculations it would be amazing, I just need to grasp the way HMRC wants it…do they want a line for each disposale(sale) ?

Maybe this http://www.cgtcalculator.com/ ? Please help… is a bit of a convoluted one.

Which one are you, doesn’t get a very good rating :upside_down_face:

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My thinking is the 25 shares sold 10/9 have the basis cost of 25 shares bought the same day. The sales 30/9 have the basis cost of the all the others. But since you have bought and sold 113 shares in total and have no residual it won’t really make any difference how you compute it.

In the second example the 05/01 sale takes its cost basis from average price of all previous purchases. Those are a. Section 104 holding.

The 28/01 and 29/01 sales take cost basis from the 12/02 purchase because of 30 day bnb rule. The March sales take their cost basis from the average price of all other purchases, excluding those which have already been matched against the previous sales. What remains is a Section 104 holding with a certain price per share you can compute.

Also, yes, try the calculator, it is good. (See below - it took me less than 10 minutes to format and run your data through the calculator).

Yes, HMRC wants a line in your attachment for each disposal. The calculator produces exactly the information you need for each line. But the information that goes in the body of the return is only the summary totals. The calculator shows this in its final line of output. If ABC and XYZ had been your only traded investments, the calculator would do them together and summarise as

The calculator gives this for the second example. It is as I posited in my post above.

It also shows that you have sold all your shares and provides this summary

I hope you feel you are no longer in BNB HELL . Output for the first example is:

The last example… shall I report it like this 5 lines in an XLS for HMRC ?

I’ve used the CGT calculator, tax and fees kept at 0 to make things clearer.

Maybe I shouldn’t add the number of shares bought as the figures are how the CGT calculator is bundling them.

Also the calculator seems wrong… why is it taking the 2 and 3 sale from the buy of 1433 shares that happens in future ? It should take them from the first Section 104 holding which is 510 shares.

Shouldn’t be like this instead ? @Richard.W

I created a calculator for cryptocurrencies called PyCryptax which was forked by someone for use on stocks. It might be useful though I’ve not used it: GitHub - mgalushka/StocksTax: UK Capital Gains Tax Calculator for Stocks

Coincidentally, I’m now working on a new calculator that will handle Excess Reportable Income on ETFs. It will work for individual stocks too. It will be a python calculator like my last one.

@dropbrick I’m not sure how to help you as I don’t know much about this calculator you are using but I know the 30 day rule will match disposals (sells) against acquisitions (buys) made 30 days afterwards and this is before any remaining amount is matched against the section 104 holding rules.

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@dropbrick The calculator is right. It is matching the sale first to purchases the same day, then to any purchases that take place within 30 days after, and finally matching to any Section 104 holding of previous purchases.

Shares Price Total
12/02/2021 BUY 1433 0.279 399.81
29/01/2021 SELL 191 0.256 48.90
28/01/2021 SELL 191 0.267 51.00

12/02 is within 30 days after 28/01 and 29/01

Ok, how would you structure the XLS to attach to HMRC then to make it clear ?

You do not need to report to HMRC all your buys. I think all you need is one line for each sale. You put down for each sale: Ticker, number of shares, date bought, date sold, cost, proceeds and gain/loss. There is no need to detail the price per share. The figure for cost is something you have your own working for, do not include in your tax return, but could explain to HMRC if ever they were to ask. HMRC will not fine you for lack of information. They will simply ask for more. You only need to be sure you can answer their questions from you records, if asked. The date bought figure is most usually “Section 104”, but could be a same day, or future day if BNB rules applied to that sale.

I am not an accountant, but this is the way I have been doing it. I am sure I am paying the right tax. You can only incur a penalty if you are late or do not pay enough tax.

Right, this then

Looks good. :slightly_smiling_face: ____________

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Thanks for the help @Richard.W .

If I’m dealing with shares priced in EUR or USD… how would you feed the data into the calculator ? Using the exchange rate provided in the statement to feed price per share in GBP ?

That would make the most sense. Must be a nice feeling to make more than the free CGT allowance. My only other thought for myself when I get to that threshold, is do I crystallise losses to offset some of the gains, and then re buy the stock after a set period. Problem being the odd chance you miss any recovery on the loss side. I haven’t worked out how much the buffer could be worth. The CGT saving could be a small buffer I guess.

I wish I was over CGT! :smiley: But I’ve traded so much thanks to my phone that I went over the 4xCGT total sell… I actually made a loss for the tax year

Ouch! Yeah my work doesn’t allow me to trade in the opposite direction in a 60 day period, so I doubt I would ever get that far. It has however made me think I want to spread my ISA’s but I only like opening up an ISA when I can in specie in or out.

Yes, you could use the rate in the statement. But no rate is given for dividends. I like to convert non-GBP currency to GBP using a vlookup into a Google sheet that has the whole year of daily exchange rates, produced with a one line googlefinance() function. I find this helpful for tax computations and keeping track of basis costs.

Hi @Richard.W you’re the resident expert!

The calculator for these trades

TAX_YEAR 20-21

  1. SELL: 25 ISHARES on 10/09/2020 at £87.85 gives LOSS of £1.25
    SAME DAY TRADE Matches with:
    BUY: 25 shares of 41 at price £87.90
    RESULTANT TRADE: B ISHARES 10/09/2020 16 87.90 0.00 0.00
    CALCULATION: LOSS = £1.25 = ( 25 * 87.85 - 0.00)
  • ( 41 * 87.90 + 0.00 + 0.00) * ( 25 / 41 )
  1. SELL: 88(2) ISHARES on 30/09/2020 at £89.08977 gives GAIN of £84.94
    Matches with:
    BUY: SECTION 104 HOLDING. 88 ISHARES shares of 88 bought at average price of £88.12455
    CALCULATION: Gain = £84.94 = ( 88 * 89.08977 - 0.00 )
  • ( 88 * 88.12455 )

CURRENT PORTFOLIO

Your portfolio is currently empty

STATISTICS

Total amount paid in stamp duty = £0.00
Total amount paid in broker’s fees = £0.00

Total number of trades = 7
Total number of buys = 4
Total number of sells = 3


How do I report the 3 sells ? Ahall I just make two lines in the XLS for HMRC and report the 88 sell as 2 sells ?