Hi
just wanted to check this is correct with bed and ISA.
I have account with “Stake” which is a GIA and want to sell my shares of sofi & then buy them back in my isa with “trading 212” within 30 days & as long as don’t go over the capital gains of £6000 when I sell them. I won’t get hit with any tax when buying them back?
Within an isa the 30 day rule does not apply when selling and buying back the same shares ?so you don’t need to worry about any extra tax .
Thanks
Hi. Welcome to the community
I am not a tax expert so hopefully others will comment.
For Q2: ISA are a tax free wrapper so you will not be liable for cgt once money is in the ISA. You still have stamp duty on some UK share purchases but the capital gains on investment are subject to CGT and once you withdraw money from the ISA it is tax free.
Your Q1 is more complex. I assume that B&B rules don’t apply. I believe that there “bed and ISA” rule which means that the sale counted for cgt purposes and the repurchase within the isa is ignored for cgt purposes (its now in an ISA). Other people can comment if I’m correct. Thus sell shares in a company in a trading account and the next day purchase the same shares in an ISA and you’re liable for cgt for the sale
I think @WakeMeUp is correct .
Everything that happens outside and inside an isa wrapper are completely separate. If you search for the phrase “bed and isa” you should get some more confirmation that it’s perfectly allowed. As you’ve already mentioned the only tax implication is if your profit when you sell is above the cgt threshold.
I’ve looked at sites on this but now unsure if you can do this with US shares. Some are saying you can only do this with UK stocks or they referring to the service they provided for bed and isa.
Not really sure if your saying the 30 day rule for selling and buying back shares the following day applies or does not ?
I’m not a tax expert so others can correct me perhaps but my understanding that you can verify for yourself. There are four basic situations:
you own shares in an invest account and sell them and then buy back. If you buy back within 30 days of selling then for tax purposes the sell and buy are ignored. So the eventual sale when you decide to go on the world cruise will take the original purchase for cgt purposes. Eg buy in 2020 @ £10/share, sell 1/2/24 @ £12/share, buy 10/2/24 @11/share and sell in 2030 @ £20/share. The 2024 transactions are ignored for cgt purposes and you didn’t crystalise the profit (or loss). When you sell in 2030 the cgt calculation uses the 2020 purchase at £10/share
you own shares in an invest account, sell them and 31 days later buy them back. The sale crystallised a profit or loss that you account for for cgt
you own shares in an ISA. You can buy and sell as many times as you want, as frequently as you want and with trades as close together as you want and it is irrelevant for cgt purposes
you own shares in an invest account and sell them and buy in an ISA. It doesn’t matter how far apart (in time) the sell and buy are the sell crystallised a profit or loss that you include in cgt calculations.
That’s my understanding but dyor…
So the 30 day rule does not apply within a isa. That’s all I needed cheers.
Seems you can do bed and ISA with US shares going by this site.
I think the AJ Bell article is misleading and basically wrong (in the sense of how you read it) but I might be wrong and if you have an AJ Bell account I would talk to them and clarify. Essentially I think multiple things are being confused.
Firstly if you buy a US stock and then later sell it at a profit (or loss) then if that’s done in an invest account it is part of the cgt calculations.
What I think the AJ Bell article is saying is that they have a special feature within their website specifically for Bed & ISA transactions for UK shares. So they have a special function that will do multiple things. Firstly it will sell the shares in your invest account and it then transfers the money from the sale into your ISA (hence it specifically says that you have to have unused allowance - ie part of your 20k a year allowance) and then immediately rebuys the shares in your ISA using the transferred money. They have built it only to support UK shares. HOWEVER, that does not mean that the HMRC tax rules don’t apply to US shares. It is simply saying that AJ Bell have only built this feature in their website (which includes funds transfer) to support UK shares.
“For investment funds or non-UK shares, you’ll need to sell the investment(s) and transfer the cash from the sale to your ISA or Lifetime ISA to buy them back again yourself. In this case, you’ll have to pay two dealing charges and, for non-UK investments, foreign exchange charges too.”
Taken from AJ Bell but I then find some other sites saying you can’t do this with US shares or there referring to a service which it what your saying. I think I’m going to contact HMRC to get confirmation.
OK I might be wrong but pretty sure I’m not.
My understanding is its actually pretty simple but these companies are making it more confusing than it needs to be because they have built features into their platforms to “help” people.
So the simple situation is. You can own ABC in an investment account. You can sell it and assuming it complies with ISA rules you can buy it back in your ISA. If you make a profit or loss on your investment while it was in the investment account that is part of the cgt calculations for that year whether you buy it within the ISA 1 second later or 6 months later. That’s it. Simple.
They are complicating it because for a specific class of investments (ie in the case of AJ Bell its UK shares) they have built a function in their website that will sell your shares from the investment account, transfer the money into your ISA and immediately buy back in your ISA and if you use their feature you pay reduced fees (ie only one trade fee). However, all of their features, websites, etc don’t change the tax rules they are just describing what their website does in a very specific situation to help you. Also, in the case of AJ Bell their feature assumes you don’t already have the cash in your ISA and it also assumes that you want to transfer the proceeds of the sales of the shares in the investment account into the ISA and that you’ve still got enough allowance for that. These are all aspects of AJ Bell’s feature they are trying to automate something for a very specific set of circumstances whereas the tax rules are simple and general.