GraniteShares 3x Short Rolls-Royce crash

Hi Trading 212 Community

I know this topic has been raised many times but I’ve got a big question that cannot get my head around…

I understood 3X Short Rolls Royce tracks the stock price after rights issue which today ex-rights the stock started trading at 76p. Until 15:30 the 3SRR.L by GraniteShares is performing with the right index calculation, however, it suddenly crashed immediately to an extreme level which cannot be explained by any justifications.

Is this a system error by 3SRR.L or where shall I seek assistance on the price justification?

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Would like an answer to this, too. I’ve reached out to Granite but they’ve not responded yet. They clearly state that “on 28 October the daily performance of the two ETPs will be in relation to the movement of the underlying Rolls-Royce shares relative to £0.7515 (adjusted by daily fees).” (https://graniteshares.com/institutional/uk/en-uk/research/rolls-royce-rights-issue-impact-on-graniteshares-etps/ ) so this makes no sense.
A lot of people just lost a LOT of money and not because the share price of RR increased by 10p! (75p to 85p is not *3 = 75% loss)

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I’ve managed to just speak to Graniteshares

First time I’ve heard something called Intraday Stock Lost Protection which was triggered at a pricing point of something near 95p and they needed to balance that in for something about 12p gap.

I told him the tracking mechanisms didn’t work properly and your pricing actually didn’t reflect the true ratio with RR pricing.

They then said they don’t normally control the pricing but it’s done by London Stock Exchange… I said I need to bring this case further or event to FCA as your Intra Day Stock Lost protection is not clearly indicated in your document.

I guess we all have to take this case further with GraniteShares otherwise so many investors are just played as a fool by them!

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Thanks for reaching out and I’m glad to hear you got through. That is indeed disconcerting as despite their explicit statement that I’ve quoted above, their instruments clearly do not operate as advertised. I’ll be waiting for an official statement/comment from them and take it from there. Needless to say, this will be the last time I invest even so much as a penny in their ETPs. The fact that I had to go to this community to get an answer through a third party speaks volumes.

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I’m with you and I don’t think Graniteshares shall just adjust their pricing randomly. I’ve done another search and digging on any of their published documents, there’s no disclosure of the term of Intra-day Stock Lost Protection.

Please let me know if you will receive anything in writing and we can all take it from there. p.s. I’ve made a massive lost too so it’s a lesson to learn about their products.

p.s. I kinda of guessed what they meant intraday stock lost protection… I can only imagine that during the day in the early morning around 11am when RR price reached 100p from 76p this would mean 3SRRL would be calculated as about close to 100% lost, and at that point the 3SRRL shall have a reset in the morning (around 11am). However they didn’t, instead they only managed to realise this at around 15:30 while the stock price was not really moving that much. It might be due to their technical reasons they implemented the lost adjustment afterwards… but even saying this, we shouldn’t be liable for the massive adjustment if it’s caused by their system delay as it’s their product faults caused this glitch of change and potentially lured more innocent investors to still carry on buying their products at a much higher price between 11am-15:30.

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3SRR looks like a scam!!!

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I’ll need to get back to you once I’m off work but they do mention the intra-day stock loss protection in the individual breakdown of the product on their site somewhere. I’ve definitely read up about it and it does not surprise me. But the fact that they DID NOT ADJUST until hours later, when the stock price had recovered to a “mere” 13.5% gain, is what is truly shocking. Of course also that a stop loss would have been triggered due to this negligence on their side is horrid. This ‘ought’ to go back to where it should mathematically be at tomorrow, but I’m frankly appalled at the abysmal communication skills. I’ve invested a lot of money in their product, and I’ll hold them to minimize downside, but ,wow, never again.

Thanks, and let’s better connect offline. You can send me your contact at xkong.neo with Gmail (hope you can work out the full address) I think we can work together to start a full legal action against them . I maybe able to guess your lost but mine is about 6 digits. My own lost is definitely worth hiring a good lawyer for us if they want to play cowboy on this matter.

Btw I downloaded all their documents on the 3SRRL none of the wording match intraday or intra-day stock lose protection adjustment… So I think we all deserve a full statement from them tomorrow.

Also following this, I bought at 2.30pm when it was trading fine, any intraday stock loss protection (I’ve never heard of this before) as described above should have triggered earlier in the day. Applying it a few hours later is not right.
I’ve experienced this once before with 3x Facebook, not quite the same but the price closed out of sync with real price and it seem to fix itself by morning. Hoping this is the same or I’ll be on the phone tomorrow also.

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Thanks for reporting your issue here too. I believe there must be something error by their system, but I doubt they’d easily adjust it back unless we put pressure on them. See my message above and if you are interested we can join together for the claim against them, if necessarily use solicitor .

My portfolio dropped to Jaw dropping levels just because of this one share. if you are sure we have a legal base to argue then I’m in as well.

I too have lost about 30K in the last hours.

Hope it gets fixed by tomorrow morning but I highly doubt if it does.

I can feel your pain but mine is about 6 digits lost so you can imagine how I felt :frowning: but let’s not stop here. As I said I’ve tried to get some explanation from them on the phone, the guy who answered my call only mentioned something about intra-day stock loss protection adjustment and that’s not something I’ve seen they put in writing clearly or advised all investors. If we don’t have enough investors starting this query request, I think Graniteshares will not give a proper response/ resolution. If all our lost is accumulated it could be a case which is big enough to start somewhere with legal. I’ll message you my email privately and you can reach me if you want to.

Oh man, I feel the pain you are going through. Loses in 6 digits? wow :flushed:.

My guess is, 3SRR surely be tracking RR and RRN thus loses doubled up as SP gone up for both by about 12%.

If I’m right then it explains why 73% drop (2* 3* 12). Perhaps, things will unveil tomorrow.

I have seen lots of sells (millions of shares) after 4:30pm today. Let’s hope a 10% dip tomorrow will put us back to original state.

I wish you the best.

Thanks for the wishes. I meant the opening price has been adjusted to reflect the true RR price, I don’t think it tracks RRN price as their documents mentioned clearly it’s using an algorithm to ensure the opening price has considered all corporate actions elements inside. So any intra day adjustment shall not be allowed unless it triggers daily reset. Even it’s adjustment but why at 3:30pm for a sudden dramatic adjustment rather than reflecting on the live RR price tracking index? This is a full myth that needs to be answered by them.

I can only start to feel your pain. After today my 3SRR is down 87% but nothing like your 6 digit loss.

I just don’t know what happened at 15:30 this afternoon for that drop. It certainly was not tracking RR.

I’ll be watching the share price tomorrow, and this thread with anticipation.

I guess, RRN shares could have taken time to be fully registered in LSE.

By the time it happened, the intraday stop lose may have been triggered.

Again, this is just my assumption. I can be totally wrong. It is just food for thought.

Will not use Granite again for sure. What a mess they made.

We can raise a complaint here.

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Hi all, I too have an issue with regards to the Rolls-Royce rights issue impact on GraniteShares-x3 ETPs, on the graniteshares website it says that “the price an investor with a £1,000 of exposure to either 3LRR and 3SRR immediately before the shares are marked ex-rights, still has a £1000 worth of exposure at the moment the shares are marked ex-rights.” But at 3.20pm today the price of the ETP was adjusted down with a result of a 70% fall in value of the investment! as currently this is not in line with the information they are giving, how they have come up with this adjustment I can not figure out! Ive been steadly adding funds to the ETP over the last few weeks to adjust the share price in my favour, but now it has no chance of ever meeting the price I bought at, even today after the opening mornings impact I bought more shares to try to give myself a chance but even those lost 70% which is simply unacceptable and just wrong, I’ve message both trading212 who agree that there is an injustice and now I’m waiting for a reply from graniteshare for more clarification, should they have increased the price not decreased to bring the leverage inline for the short?, I don’t know! please can everyone keep us all updated on this matter on here with regards to replies from them,

Thanks

Wayne

Thanks. Luckily the loss in this particular product is not huge in terms of absolute figures (10k-ish) but I meant across different products with granite I had invested. I was planning on liquidating before the US election anyway so it’s alright, but this one in particular really bugs me. I had averaged my shorts down to under 80p over the last weeks and just earlier with a couple hundred bucks I was able to average down to 60p, simply because my holdings had lost 80%+ of their value in a day. They should never have allowed people to trade at 40p+ levels, and I’m not one of those poor souls who bought a short literally moments before this ridiculous drop, but I’m sure they are out there. And shame on Granite for scamming those folks.
Let’s see what tomorrow brings.

Hi all

I am also sailing in the same boat. I noticed that from 50p the price went all the way down to 16p. Rolls royce stock price was still the same. I don’t understand how they can adjust the price like this intra day. Can some one please add me to the group if any to take legal action?