Help understanding pie setup

Sorry if this seems obvious to the masses but…

How does this start out.

I have created a pie and get how to invest using free funds from ISA.

How do you move existing investments into the pie and also if you want new investments do you buy the company which appears on the ‘investment’ side of portfolio and move them somehow to the pie, or is there a way to buy them ad hoc from inside the pie (having control of price want to bid at) directly into the pie. When you buy where does that purchase land on ‘investment’ side or ‘pie’ side of portfolio, assuming they are separate entities of the over portfolio.

What is the order of play exactly?

My concern before acting further is as above and also how do you control what price you pay (in same way as investment side of portfolio) when adding stocks continually or are the pies design to average cost down so you command regular contributions and you pay whatever the price of the stock is at the time according to balancing as soon as the pies are funded.

I am just a beginner so want to plan this correctly in the best informed position.

Thanks for any pointers from the community.

Can’t move existing stocks into the pie yet, just because it’s a beta
It kinda will do what you’re saying with the self balancing option, I personally use this.

Thanks Cavan.

So when say ‘yet’, is that a future functionality in the offing?

How do people manage within the current operation of pies, have they a split between ‘investment’ (outside of pie) and some inside pie of portfolio? What benefits are seems pointless having same stock inside and outside pie (2 separate buys)

I am struggling to wrap my head around the primary use geared towards and why investment and pie co-exist and controlling price paid, say put a stop limit on , where does that purchase land exactly.

Could you for instance add a stock you not purchased yet into a pie, buy that stock, and the purchase lands in the pie provided it preexists in the pie. From there obviously make regular contributions to build the pie value.

Ultimately want to understand pros and cons before committing and whether can be 100% pies or have to run a division of ‘investment’ and ‘pie’ within portfolio.

Any pointers do help for mapping /navigating from scratch.

Thanks again!

They are treated as separate entities. So the cash within the pie is the pie’s cash and the stocks are contained within the pie, however these values are in the investments tab as a total of in your out of pie investments in the company. If you click an instrument under the investments tab you will Find how much is invested within pies and outside of pies, and a total of this. Any stock you want in a pie has to be purchased within the pie right now. And it will never be automatically be entered into the pie. Instead you will be able to “merge” investments into the pie in future.

To really sum it up, pies are for simpler investing that keeps you on track. You allocated how much you want to put into certain stocks, and then you deposit money in and it will keep the pie balanced if you set it up as self balancing. Then you can also set up dividend reinvestment. It’s really neat but is made to be hands off. If you’re a value investor, you will probably find you’ll prefer to do the buys yourself. But if it is self balancing, when the value of the stock drops, more money will be allocated to it next time money is deposited, essentially buying more of the cheaper stocks and less of the expensive stocks.

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I find pies are time-saving when I want to top up with small amounts. Suppose I have a pie of 10 stocks and want to add £50, with £5 going into each stock. It would be more trouble than it is worth to try a snag a good price for each of these stock by trying to strategically make 10 separate trades. I am happy just to accept the market order values and be done. However, if I had £500 to invest in a single stock I would probably prefer to do that with a limit order, and after looking at recent price movements.

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Thanks for clarifying a few things.

Seems to me you compromise somewhat on desired price paid and pies are an excellent choice for hands off investing. Correct me if I am wrong but if you want to snag a stock at a certain price in the moment, the only way available at present is to in the moment quickly make a new deposit and let pies go fetch the stock purchase in market open.

The control by limit order does not work well as that is restricted to dropping into ‘investment’ side of portfolio without ability to move into desired pie.

Also I am missing something but only ways to fund pies is via deposit options below and there is no option to freely move funds to/from free funds to pies? This now means if I want to use ‘free funds’ within ISA I have to withdraw it all and start again (make new deposits into pie)

After beta what does the future development behold to consider this feature complete?

Is it an over-simplification to say this

could work better if same abilities of ‘investment’ side of portfolio where given to pies (merger) and render this need to run coexisting arms of same portfolio legacy…i.e stop having to think about these workarounds and best application and consolidate the entities. Perhaps this is already the end goal, just think in current form could be simplified to wants.

For example when ad hoc purchase with free funds pot have the option to assign that purchase into a selected pie? or have an intermediatary neutral general ledger (step 1) to park the stock and then transfer to/from pies (step 2) after securing at the price you want.

purchase 》direct into pie 》move to pies

                         or

                  middle pot

The middle pot would act as a temporary hold until can move stock to desired pie and make necessary adjustment to the recipient pie in preparation for that movement (slicers etc).

If this is up votable idea of consensus upgrade would appreciate consideration to alterations in this regard, to make the pathways shorter.

Many thanks :slight_smile:

Coming soon

And for all the other questions, I’m not sure why you’d be interested in buying individual stocks Oman’s getting them into pies, doesn’t really offer you any advantage than just buying outside of the pie?

So that you have control of price paid. At the moment your at the mercy of circumstance that only investment arm helps with . Why should you need to choose? clear benefit of moving stocks around pies or a general ledger is autoinvest.

I think the current issue is how to time price, get them into pies and source of funding the pies.

re deposits via ‘free funds’…how soon would you say that will be enabled?

I currently have 1/2 annual allowance worth in ISA that cannot be invested in pies!

or at least not without emptying the ISA to bank first and redepositing them into pies.

Incidentally, is the ISA a replenishment ISA (meaning you can withdraw , replace the funds, without the withdrawn funds using up the annual allowance?

Without this ability (which I think is a noticeable oversight) pies for using existing funds (pre-pies) impractical to participate to pies. you basically are compelled to make up pies with ‘new’ deposits only.

To exclude already held funds from the equation , strange motif if you asked me.

Won’t be too long now I’d say, been ask for for a long time. There’s a whole thread about everything called auto invest feedback where you’ll find everything you could dream of

Great. From what I can gather from below, not the best news for me.

a.) T212 ISA is the non-flexible type. Withdrawals eat
up the annual allowance.

b.) Withdraw incurs potential Capital Gains Tax CGT

c.) Redeposting those same funds back into ISA for
the sake of pies are considered new
contributions and again lowers your ISA
allowance. Double whammy.

b. is normal and acceptable consequence to take profits (only chargeable to CGT in excess of 12,700 annual limit) , however none of this cumbersome action to recycle the money in order to make-use of pies should have ever been necessary. This unfortunately is prohibitive enough for me not to use them until these barriers are removed.

A rather glaring product omission and disappointing

I hope the ability to use ‘free funds’ in pies is introduced sooner rather than later.

I think you need to check out some general ISA rules because I’m not 100% sure you understand. I’ve bolded the answers to a, b, c and oddly b.

I still think the ability to cherrypick a stock by limit order etc to secure the price your willing to pay then move from ‘investment’ to ‘pies’ ideally at the point of purchase and mobility is a must to snag bargains. Else you have to hope there is symmetry among the stocks in your pie at same time to get those comparatively bargains to not use pies.

Buy low , sell high is a strategy as old as time for a reason - why change that to the investors detriment.

Pies are really more for automatic investing and more of a DCA type. What you are after is more value investing which you would be able to do by buying normally and then importing into the pie, not the intended function of the pie.

You can withdraw funds from pies into your ISA wallet without affecting any ISA limit as you haven’t withdrawn the funds from the ISA, only the pie within the ISA. You can then freely deposit from the ISA wallet into the same or other pies within the ISA, or make a value purchase and wait for the import slice functionality, which George has demo’d to us in one of the threads.

As long as you do not withdraw the funds from the ISA there is no problem, but you are correct this is not a flexible ISA, not a problem as long as you aren’t withdrawing from the ISA wallet back to bank account.

This has not been changed, you are not forced to use the pies. Pies with automatic investing is a dollar cost averaging strategy, also one of the old tried and true strategies, but more for a hands off type of investor. Pies are certainly better for dividend investors and passive index investors, and not pies is better for growth and value investors.

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Yeah, but you wont make it…others have failed before you.
Always remember:
Timing the market will never beat time in the market !

I think you also misunderstand the idea of an ISA, this is not taxfree money to play and gamble. The idea is a long term investment to help your retirement.

Timing and trading is easier been done in the CFD section, but remember over 75% of CFD traders loose…

think your all missing a very simple point.

Capture stocks at price you want to pay (bargains).

Move that stock from ‘investment’ side of portfolio into ‘pie’. Use pie functionality to adjust pie targets to accomodate that stock. Maybe a middle pot is a vehicle for best doing so.

This maximises profits over short or long term.

Please introduce this ability for the greater good. Don’t over complicate a simply request or excessively justify opinions cliche strategies that are irrelevant to disguise the lack of this being a current ability.

Thanks

@regional11 Import & Export of shares functionality is coming next week.

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Finally! Going to be perfect :heart_eyes:

tenor

:+1:t2:

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@George eagerly awaited :ok_hand:

@George just to double check as not seen the import/export yet. This means can move stocks

a.) from existing ‘Investment’ side of portfolio to pies

b.) between pies

Is that the measure of it?

If so, especially if a. is true there is no need for me to hold back as as from next week the release covers all basis. Brilliant if so!

Thanks