How to Short Stocks in a Trading 212 Invest Account

Which stocks? :statue_of_liberty:

For now, there are 14 stocks being tracked (all trade on US markets).

The products below are ETPs (exchange traded products) that trade like a normal stock/ETF on the London Stock Exchange.

  • -1x Advanced Micro Devices ETP
  • -1x Alibaba ETP
  • -1x Alphabet ETP
  • -1x Amazon ETP
  • -1x Apple ETP
  • -1x Facebook ETP
  • -1x Micron Technology ETP
  • -1x Microsoft ETP
  • -1x Netflix ETP
  • -1x NVIDIA ETP
  • -1x Salesforce.com ETP
  • -1x Tesla ETP
  • -1x Twitter ETP
  • -1x Uber ETP

How they work. :mailbox:

When the underlying stock’s price decreases, the price of the corresponding ETP aims to rise by the same amount (and vice versa).

For example, if the price of Apple stock fell by 3% on a given day, the -1x Apple ETP will aim to increase by 3% (and vice versa).

Below is the price movement of Apple stock (blue) and -1x Apple ETP (red) from June 5th until Oct 6th:

Benefits? :open_umbrella:

When going short, theoretically an investor can lose an infinite amount (if the stock price keeps going up). With these products, investors can never lose more than the amount invested (the price would just go to 0 if the stock being tracked key going up).

  1. Hedge :umbrella:
  2. Go short :roller_coaster:
  3. Use long/short strategy :small_red_triangle: :small_red_triangle_down:

*Disclaimer: I have a business relationship with Leverage Shares. The aforementioned is NOT investment advice and is for informational purposes only.

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Flagged this one as spam, under self advertisement category. @Oktay can you please stop this act of continuous shameless plug These are risky products and your posts do nothing but “bait” failry new retail investors.

Thanks,

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Hi @kali,

I appreciate your feedback. Indeed, trading these - like trading in general, involves risk. I’d be happy to remove if the post is considered ‘spam.’

I am answering previously asked questions and trying to clarify how these products work so that people are aware of the mechanics prior to investing/trading blindly.

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I don’t see any problem. @Oktayis just pointing towards ETPs available on T212. I have more a problem with people promoting their websites and YouTube channels outside the designated area in the community forums.

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yes those are definitely like tumors, but this above post is also precisely advertisement.

image

further more, this is a forum not a legally regulated environment. so statements like this:

go unchecked and give a false sense of security to new investors. In reality when you short a product either by borrowing, on margin or by ETPs you can loose all your investment. Yes theoretically you can loose infinite amount of money on margin, but no broker will allow you to go into minus funds. you’ll get margin called and get liquidated under a certain threshold.

All securities carry some risk. I think this post is very valuable and is not spam at all. In fact can help retail investors learn to hedge.

I vouch for the post and hope @Oktay keeps adding value to the forum.

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I only see someone selling his product on community.

Because if you check OP description, "Business Development " aka Sales , so the “education” is part of advertisement pitch.

If by standards of community advertisement is spam, then by definition this is a spam.

@kali but as I see T212 already dismissed the spam flag, so it seems like Don Quixote vs Windmill.

Which is not shocking given the fact they added bunch of ETPs over hundreds of requested stocks which are/were waiting to be added.

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Thanks for the hint, didn’t see his profile before.

Would have been nice to see disclaimer at the top or bottom of the post, disclosing his affiliation. More transparent that way.

But in the end I don’t believe it is spam, he is introducing and educating about ETPs that are already on the platform, like we also do all often, though not with an affiliation or conflict of interest.

Thanks again

Look I get it, of course he’s going to promote his company, and the way he’s put it it’s not really an issue about “self-promoting”, as he’s educating and not just spamming for clicks or advertising.

The issue I see is it’s a random post about them, not in response to an actual question. This would be perfectly fine imo as a reply to someone asking about them, but as a stand-alone post… it seems more orientated towards self promotion. But I don’t really care, just ignore it if you don’t care.

On a different note, is there anyway of getting a Nikola short? I’m not comfortable opening CFD but I’d love to have this available for this fraud (imo :wink:)

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thx @Vedran and precisely, this is advertisement and we either allow ads or not. But looks like T212 wants to advertise these as well. :man_shrugging:

Also this type of “in theory correct but criminally misleading” statements are really common within these posts.

I genuinely don’t care, and I have quite a few other a lot powerful methods than short term long/short trades, I’d never use these anyway.

I am though honestly and genuinely worried about new investors, and the “fairy tale” language used here just swells my worries.

I’m just wondering if you’d be able to get rid of these -1x ETPs if things start going against you. Barely any volume here. How long would it take to sell like … 1,000 shares? This is the -1x AMD one.

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Hi @cavanhagan @saifali @kali,

I have added a disclaimer to the post at the bottom in bold, in addition to the one I already mention in my profile.

I decided to make a separate topic due to previous questions (about inverse ETPs) in multiple posts - just to aggregate them. I feel it adds value since, although I mentioned the Leverage Shares products here, the concept is the same for products (like market index trackers) by other providers like Xtrackers, WisdomTree, etc.

Once again, if considered spam - I’d be happy to remove.

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There is a market maker taking both sides (buy & sell) throughout the day - BNP Paribas in this case. Even for institutional sizes ($ millions), liquidity should not be an issue.

This is how ETPs (and ETFs) work in general, since they are open-ended products. There are what’s called dedicated market makers (DMM) that are obliged to provide tight quotes throughout the trading day.

Even if the ETP (or ETF) itself has low volume or assets under management, these market makers will take both sides of the trade since they can always offset by creating or redeeming in the ‘primary market.’ This is why it’s very important for the ETPs to have very liquid underlying stocks.

Hope this helps.

1 Like

And if you don’t mind explaining, @Oktay, how are these quotes derived for UK instruments when the subject of the ETP’s (eg. Tesla or Apple) market is closed?

I’m aware this is more general ETF/P-related question but it’s an area I have very little understanding of. Guessing it’s derivative-related, but again, my knowledge of derivatives is zero, so appreciate any insight into this. Thanks

PS. I have Googled this but can’t find a satisfactory answer.

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It’s a good question!

Since a market maker HAS to make markets (they buy when someone wants to sell, and sell when someone wants to buy) - they will either end up with an inventory of ETF/ETPs or be short ETF/ETPs.

Here’s the caveat - MMs don’t want risk. So when they are long or short any product, they have to hedge. In the case of typical index ETFs (like S&P 500 or Nasdaq-100 that trade in Europe), they’d most likely hedge with futures given they trade around the clock. In the case of these ETPs, they hedge with the GDRs (global depository receipts) that trade in Germany (see ticker TL0 for Tesla and APC for Apple). For example, if the market maker (MM) is long the Tesla ETP it bought from you, it will offset this by being short the Tesla GDR - bringing it to a neutral position.

This then begs the question - how are GDRs priced? Just like many depository receipts in the US (like Alibaba), they use price movements in the home market, news that come out after market closes, and demand/trading where the depository receipt itself trades. This is what’s called a price discovery mechanism, b/c trading elsewhere gives a relatively good idea about how the stock will resume trading in its ‘home market.’

I think the post below could provide some clarifications (you need to scroll down a bit to my response to libreus).

He must be a friend of @Team212 otherwise he would have been banned a long time ago by mods. Just had a look to his profile and posts. The guys is essentially here to sell his lousy leveraged products.

I just spent the time to read every post by @Oktay on this forum. I did not see advertising in any of the posts.

There is a report button on each post. If you feel that what you are reading is an ad please use that button. Posting unfounded accusations is just off-topic :slight_smile:

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While I genuinely agree that there is no full on sales pitch.

It is oddly coincidental that Oktay starts posting on this community at same time first ETPs were added.

Therefore I presume it is pure marketing/PR/Sales, with twist on “educating” public on highly speculative securities offering.

For instance:

Name of topic = company

Seems like advertisement to me.

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It’s gonna be a hard sell…

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