UPDATE on T212 terms & conditions

Wrong again, there is precedent that client assets HAVE been used to pay creditors in this situation.

I agree with you about the matter of “well protected” but yes, they have all copied from vanguard (I believe vanguards used to be worded in this way) but they have since updated to the current.

You are also attempting to argue that Trading212 can interpret their clause outside of the rules of the FCA, the most current example of such deceit I can probably give you of this is Nikola motors… and that didn’t go well for them.

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But… you just contradicted yourself in that sentence.

To define ‘shortfall’ in this context, as I interpret it, would be that the nominee account does not contain enough “asset” to cater for the client amount minus what is owed to creditors.

If you are not interpreting Vanguards wording in this way, then we will not be able to come to an agreement here.

I guess you could have just sent an email to Trading212 to clarify rather than put mine and apparently your own assets at risk.

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Yes, but in previous cases of this exact thing happening, the nominee account has been used to pay debts and then has been retrospectively recovered by the FSCS.

Isn’t this what the whole line is about?

This is why I personally would like the term “well protected” clarified rather than what you’re talking about.

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This i believe is the relevant CASS 6 section that caused the change in T&C.

Simply put, some foreign jurisdictions may require T212 to divert from the normal arrangements with custodians in the UK & US markets

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:boom: Johny for finding and understanding the regulatory text. It can be a minefield at times the number of revisions made over the years to find the current stance.

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@Sasha the simple answer would be that the highlighted text is not relevant to the current structure. The text in question (now under clause 13.10 b) is not newly introduced but has been preserved from the previous version of the Terms of Business. And most importantly, all client funds are always protected by us under CASS.

Further clarification on how the clause corresponds with the custody chain. :arrow_down:

The wording referred to by Sasha refers to a hypothetical situation where assets of clients of Trading 212 UK Ltd. are registered in the name of Trading 212 UK Ltd. As mentioned above, Client Assets are always protected by Trading 212 UK Ltd. under CASS 6. Due to the custody chain, it may be the case that assets are not recorded in your name but in our name, the name of our custodian or a sub-custodian down the chain. Currently it is the practice of our custodian and the custody chain we use to register assets in the name of the end sub-custodian or a third party nominated by that sub-custodian. This means that the current practice is that assets are not registered in the name of Trading 212 UK Ltd., therefore the provision referred by Sasha is currently not applicable. As mentioned above, for instance with US shares, the end custodian is the Depository Trust Company (DTC) in the US. The shares are held in the name of a third party, DTC’s nominee entity, Cede & Co, as standard in the US.

Trading 212 UK Ltd. always strives to provide widest possible access to the worldwide financial markets to you, our clients. It may be the case that certain overseas markets (for instance outside the most commonly used markets in the US, UK and EU) require or have a market practice that assets are recorded in the name of the end broker, this being Trading 212 UK Ltd. This is why this provision is part of our Share Dealing Terms of Business, even if not applicable currently. For the avoidance of doubt, at all times Trading 212 UK Ltd. will comply with the applicable rules under CASS 6 for the protection of your assets and you remain the beneficial owner of any shares.

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@Sasha you might need to now put out another video commenting on all the wrong assumptions :thinking: “Trading 212 Just Confirmed Your Investments Are Actually Safe”

You’ve basically made free money with your clickbait whilst potentially cost T212 customers both existing and new.

Whilst you might be sticking with T212, the comments show the knee-jerk reaction with your followers

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This is just a small selection, you have to remember the viewers that don’t comment. Currently 13k+ views but the longer the video is around without a follow up the more damage it does.

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@phildawson You want free money? Find a bookmaker to offer you odds that he won’t.

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It’s a shame it’s actually costing people money. Look at Duncan’s post above. Was going to move to 212, from Vanguard to avoid the Vanguard 0.15% platform fee, and has now cancelled it.

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T212 could ask compensation for misinformation.

If I had a business that was targeted by misinformation and speculation, lowering the goodwill of my company, and with that lowering my company assets, I will seek compensation for reputational damage.

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Scary how people just follow the pied Piper, take note when buying your stonks. Do your own research.

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We’ve gone from a world of spending weeks on your own DD to watching a few seconds of tiktok for advice on what to do.

With easier on ramps to stocks comes inexperience and lack of attention span. Easier to follow and blame someone else.

I also blame crypto with 1% actually understanding what the technology does or solve on any project, its insert coin and spin the wheel stuff.

All about the influence :roll_eyes:

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YouTube creators should first do their due diligence, before posting stuff. I am subscribed to 2 channels. The rest I completely stopped watching because of the misinformation. Especially when it comes to reviewing platforms, companies etc.

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If it looks pretty or sounds nice, it’s easy for people to get roped into something.

speak with some certainty and finality and even if you know little of what you are talking about, you can convince people you know a lot. reading documents takes time and a certain level of education if you don’t want to be constantly hitting the dictionary and even then people need to consult qualified professionals to develop a clear picture about all the minor technicalities they aren’t familiar with.

watching videos of other people is far quicker, cheaper and easier if they assume the person has done all that work for them.

the sad fact is 95% of people who get into the stock market are just going to end up handing all their money to the 5% who know the most about what they are doing. The easiest way for some people to put themselves in the 5%, is to increase the number of those present in the 95%.

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What is ironic, is that people don’t trust the financial professionals, instead they trust random strangers in the internet, that are most of times just people like them without any formation or professional experience on the areas they are talking about.

In my country there is a saying, translated as this: “In a land of the blind, whoever can see is king.”

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We are all random strangers :rofl:

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You only need to sound like you know what you’re talking about on YouTube.

A good seller must sound like he/she knows what they are talking about. This includes politicians, actors, journalists, etc.

People should understand that real experts don’t give their knowledge for free, the people that give free “knowledge” are wannabe experts.

Utmost, real experts give small hints at random times, not on regular basis and without receiving some monetary compensation.

And most experts are bound by legal and ethical constraints that limited them publicly and privately.

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People always think - “right, but this one is legit and gives me knowledge for free, I like them”. And they just consume.

And for sure, there are some talented people that produce valuable content, mixed up with the crowd of wannabe experts, gurus and others “just expressing their opinion” in a sensational manner.

@Donaldo_Duckarelli’s podcast with Paul is still free, subscribe while the promotion lasts. :blush:
Speaking of, they should also make a T&C episode :rofl: Just don’t forget to add a title/thumb like “If you invest with T212 you need to hear this right now! Appalling!”. Otherwise it won’t get traction.

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They are decent podcasts to be fair.

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