Intel - cheap? Why?

Kali ARM is an open architecture it is not propriety to the arm company.
Nvidia buying arm will get some license fees but they won’t become the supplier for apple

Sounds to me like you and I are in alignment and don’t disagree.

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oh man I can talk about this subject for years :hugs::hugs::hugs: I pity my friends who remotely open these subjects accidentally in a pub. now you are my next victim to listen to my ramblings :slight_smile:

you are somewhat correct yes ARM is an instruction set and an architecture designed by arm company while arm company does not produce a single CPU themselves, they sell the rights to use this design in packaged products. If/when you use a professional layout software like cadence you can find “ready to use” arm cores you can “drag and drop” on your layout. So arm designs the cores and the instruction set. A CPU is “mostly” cores, but the design is not finished there, there are bunch of things to add (for which you can use one of ARMs free templates) And arm has a wide and wild variety of cores to choose from (some are amazingly small and using very few and valuble layers)

so apple buys the core design, adds their architecture around the cores and sends it to a foundry for production (presumably TSMC since apple have been using 7nm for a while)

After blurting all that I have to make a disclaimer, I haven’t done any full custom IC design since 2010. And I know arm started selling(a few years ago, not sure exactly when) a different kind of license which allows companies buying to make alterations to core design and more importantly keep these alterations as secrets. I know Nvidia and Samsung use these licenses but all I can do is speculate when it comes to “how much do they change the core design” I am going to guess less than 5% because working on someone elses layout (imo) is almost harder than doing it yourself. But anyones guess is legit at this point.

:peace_symbol:

@Tefal I know my post mostly agrees with you but had to nerd out a bit, this lockdown is not going great and the oldest person I can talk about semiconductors around me is a 4 year old :frowning:

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Great knowledge Kali, do you think intel is still worth a dig at such a low price. Decent dividend on it too. I like KLA, might invest in them soon, I’ll wait for market correction I think.

As a Gamer, all I know is that AMD currently sell their CPUs to Sony and Microsoft for the next Generation Consoles and Nintendo uses Nvidia (they burned Sony and MS so badly that they switched to AMD).

For years AMD was the underdog but always tried their best to keep up and Intel became complaicant.

I think AMD is finally getting recognised for their hard work and wisely jumped on a contract with Playstation and Xbox production to keep making money, which Intel should have done earlier.

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I have no direct answer for this, but I think Intel is only worth because it’s priced cheap at the moment compared to wider market. It will not grow leaps and bounds but like other people mentioned it’s not going anywhere in short/mid term, they are a dividend payer and there is little to no risk of hitting a price crater unless something scandalous happens.

Who knows may be with some intelligent management changes they can start challenging other brands. Which will be great for consumers, we don’t want a monopoly one way or another.

I’ve also recently posted my buy list, which has quite a few semiconductor stocks. KLA is a decent one and promising, if you want to diverse into these “lesser known” ones, I recommend looking into ones like AVGO, xilinx and ASML.

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I’m kind of heavily on such companies as well… AMD, NVIDIA, AVGO, TSM… some of them I bought during March hell, so have already very good results on them and will keep all of them for many many years.

Intel is still an uncertain for me, I may wait a bit, at least one more quarter to see better what to expect from it.

Oh true I’m sorry I was more saying that nvidia buying arm didnt meant they suddenly own the production of apple products.

I know the semiconductor worlds is like the wild west with this stuff and I’m not super informed on it (I’m more manufacturing/aerospace background)do you know roughly the sort of license fee arm can charge with regards to apple and thier new designs?

And would nvidia have the capability to renegotiate that after a take over or would it be locked in at the current deal with arm

Oh an btw what pub do you drink in I travel a lot :joy:

That’s an interesting question, never thought about it. Since the licenses at the moment are on annual subscription basis, I guess Nvidia can ask for any amount of money when the current licenses expire. Normally you pay a flat subscription fee for resources + per processor fee when/if the product is in literally produced.

My opinion here is they’ll probably keep the prices similar, having apple as your customer buying your cpus is gold laying goose, there is no need to 10x your prices and kill it.

ugh… I heard things from a friend who heard from a friend… <-- also known as a rumour with no source.

But I’ve started watching INTC prize and keeping an eye on director deals, in case it is true.

Remember blackberry phones. That’s Intel stock (Moat) damaged.

Intel’s moat is that they build chip inhouse and retain high margins.

AMD have managed to Design a chip that is faster, more energy efficient and cheaper to build (use Twian Semi Conductor’s outsource)

If AMD MARGINS ARE GOOD. Then intel are done.

Jump in opportunity tomorrow if you have gut :see_no_evil:

Cause AMD is the future

Well I’m no techie but I heard that Chromebook Laptops are getting very popular and they use Intel processors.

Col.

Damn, that is a good argument, should sell grossly underpriced INTC to buy grossly overpriced AMD.

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:joy: :joy: :joy:

oh wow, investing.com did that? :open_mouth:

@Kali, you are AMD pitbull, rite?

Tell me under which metric can we look AMD in today valuations to make any sense?

I look at Cash flow graphs and it seems like looking at horror movie…

Intel’s problems ‘are likely just getting started,’ analyst warns as stock slides: https://on.mktw.net/3jj8Cyo