Stop Loss and Take Profit Simultaneously?

[Clearwell_T]

And I’m doing low frequency “active investor” type trading inside my Stocks & Shares ISA, because it’s tax free.

Even though my trading is not very sophisticated, I would definitely use the more technical tools if they were available in this type of account.

CT

[Adriano]

I totally agree, and would love to know if you’ve found a solution elsewhere. Stop loss at least would be crucial, as I have lost so much already due to sharp and fast declines that were not foreseeable. And in point your remark about this platform attracting investors without offering basic protection for those who cannot be monitoring their investments all the time. Have you found a solution? Btw, I’m in Portugal and am quite unsure what would be the options for someone based here.

[Clearwell_T]

Hi @Adriano,

I haven’t had a chance to check back on this thread for a while, but I came over to the forum this morning to check up on any updates and spotted your reply

I’m not sure if you were addressing your comments to anyone in particular here, but I can offer a quick answer (I hope a useful one).

@Adriano

Stop loss at least would be crucial

Not sure which account you have, but my Stocks and Shares ISA has Limit, Stop, and Stop Limit options. The one option we were discussing which isn’t currently available is a Trailing Stop Loss, which moves higher as the price moves higher, basically “shadowing” the same amount of ticks or percentage behind the price as it varies.

Hope that’s some help.

CT

[Adriano]

Thank you for your reply. Well, maybe my response is a bit tangent to the topic, but if I understand the system correctly, we do not have the option to start a position on a stock and define our stop loss prices (trailing or not). We need to place an order to sell, with a stop loss, below our the current price, and if we want to take profit, we need to manually cancel that stop loss and and initiate another sell order, with a higher price stop. Since the shares are blocked, we need to cancel and open a new sell order manually.

Maybe you can enlighten me if I am missing an opportunity to protect my investments and have proper risk management, so I can take profit without having to manually do these manual movements.

[Clearwell_T]

Hey @Adriano ,

Thanks for the reply.

Just taking your questions in order (if I understand them correctly, sorry if I got them wrong):

@Adriano

Stop loss at least would be crucial, as I have lost so much already due to sharp and fast declines that were not foreseeable.

So, that is covered in a basic way by the Stop Loss that is included in the ISA accounts. Was that your original concern??

@Adriano

We need to place an order to sell, with a stop loss, below our the current price, and if we want to take profit, we need to manually cancel that stop loss and and initiate another sell order, with a higher price stop

Yes, that’s correct. And in fact, you are describing the function of a trailing stop loss, as long as your new stop is below the original buy price you paid. I suspect you already understand that point.

I think what you’re driving at is the precise point of the original question of this thread (and I agree with you) ie: “framing” your purchase price with a stop loss below, and a take profit above, and that is not possible as best as I can tell with the available tools in an ISA. Someone else may have a clever way of doing this, but I don’t believe it’s possible with a single tranche of shares.

I think Intlnv’s reply above may have provided us with the answer for why this is:

@IntInv

Providing a Trailing Stop Loss (or any other basic version) possibly does not fit T212’s business model. T212 continues to tow the line to such requests saying ISA account trades are expected to be less risky due to their long term nature and therefore they do not think TSL is applicable for an ISA account.

I think the truth is, ISA offers them limited investment that is capped at 20k per year. So no opportunity for them to tempt or make you increase your investment once this cap is reached. If they provide ISA accounts with a TSL, how are they going to make money?

If T212 provides you with a TSL, you would never lose money and your trades will only go through when they profit you. On the contrary, error in your trading decisions without a TSL will either make you chase your losses resulting into a barrage of trades, the more the merrier for T212, or, if you get frozen on your tracks, this still makes money for T212 as then your money is ‘better invested’ fetching you a silly 4.x% interest.

ie: A simple £20k limited ISA is not a large account for T212 to extract their income from, without manual blunders keeping the fees rolling in.

Cheers, and let’s keep up the pressure for improvements in the ISA tools.

CT

[Clearwell_T]

PS,

@Adriano

Actually, thinking about it, if you’re based in Portugal, surely you can’t have a UK Stocks & Shares ISA account from there?? Maybe you’re talking about a GIA instead??

[Clearwell_T]

PS,

@Veselin.V
@Momchil.G

In fact, thinking about it further, I don’t see why T212 wouldn’t be extracting fees from an ISA that had a decent toolset, as they make their money off these accounts through FX fees, right?

And I suspect a lot, if not most of us are trading US stocks anyway, so it would still be a win/win for T212 and the customer base.

Plus, I have been asking elsewhere on the forum about the possibilty of adding some automation tools to the S&S ISA’s, either in-house, or third party via webhooks (capitalise.ai etc).

CT

[Adriano]

@Clearwell_T you’re right. My account is an investment account. I don’t have this ISA option available. I can trade US stocks in this investment version.

I’m not sure if there’s a cap in this type of account, but how would you explain the lack of features we’re discussing for an investment account?

Most likely, other brokers who have these features would have the same challenges, so I don’t get why 212 would avoid giving us this option, at least for this type of account.

As suggested, if there are financial constraints, probably, the users themselves could cover them by either paying a fee, or who knows committing to give up a % of the profits…

If it would cause issues on the server, perhaps the users could cover the scalability, by paying for the use, or the app could set a limit of trades per day, or time limit… There must be a solution.

I’m putting relatively little money here, as I have to really keep an eye all the time when I position myself in volatile stocks, if I want to make a profit and not only losses. And I have a 9-18 job…

[nz1nz2]

Same here. Considering leaving 212 invest account as not having these feautures has caused me some losses

[Clearwell_T]

Hey Adriano,

Very sorry for the delay replying. It gets very busy around my house. I’m just one simple man!?!

@Adriano

I’m not sure if there’s a cap in this type of account, but how would you explain the lack of features we’re discussing for an investment account?

I only have a Stocks & Shares ISA with T212, so I have no experience with their other products. But yes, It does seem very odd that more sophisticated tools are not available in a GIA.

@Adriano

Most likely, other brokers who have these features would have the same challenges, so I don’t get why 212 would avoid giving us this option, at least for this type of account.

I agree with all of this. I have no idea why it’s not standard to have these tools. Like yourself, I would have assumed it would be so.

As I said above, let’s all keep up with giving T212 our feedback about the user experience. It’s such a massive platform, that for the most part appears to work extremely well, so I can only give them the appropriate credit for all the hard work they do.

I certainly don’t want them to “move fast and break things”. We customers can be a rather demanding bunch, but I guess we need to temper our expectations sometimes.

Hope you’re well, and spk soon.

CT

[ikonyk999]

@Clearwell_T

@Adriano

I’m not sure if there’s a cap in this type of account, but how would you explain the lack of features we’re discussing for an investment account?

I only have a Stocks & Shares ISA with T212, so I have no experience with their other products. But yes, It does seem very odd that more sophisticated tools are not available in a GIA.

@Adriano

Most likely, other brokers who have these features would have the same challenges, so I don’t get why 212 would avoid giving us this option, at least for this type of account.

I agree with all of this. I have no idea why it’s not standard to have these tools. Like yourself, I would have assumed it would be so.

As I said above, let’s all keep up with giving T212 our feedback about the user experience. It’s such a massive platform, that for the most part appears to work extremely well, so I can only give them the appropriate credit for all the hard work they do.

I certainly don’t want them to “move fast and break things”. We customers can be a rather demanding bunch, but I guess we need to temper our expectations sometimes.

Hope you’re well, and spk soon.

CT

It’s odd that such basic features are missing, especially for a platform that seems otherwise so solid. It really does feel like these tools should be standard, even for a GIA.

[IntInv]

WAKE UP call ! Unless long pending basic functionalities like trailing stop loss is provided to all accounts we will get left behind in the competition!

The big bull is here!

Scalping in ISA account

While on the matter → You Want to Trade at 3AM? Schwab Opens Round-the-Clock Trading Access for All Clients Sometimes it makes you wonder how much ahead T212 is in the game. We have been enjoying 24Hrs trading without thinking about it. Also a wakeup call for T212, better gear up and provide long requested and missing basic features across the board (ISA or no ISA) else lose out!