Reduction in T212 quantities

Hugely disappointing update. As someone that regularly trades SPACs, being able to trade a maximum of £2k on average may finally be stick that breaks the camels back for me sticking it out with T212.

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Would also be interesting to see how this affects CFD as it specifically states in the title ‘ISA/Invest’.

Are they getting permanent reductions across the board too?

And what about stocks not listed in email are they unlimited or someone forgot to put it there? For now from what I own i couldn’t find LGEN there.

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Good point, interestingly Lucid Motors also doesn’t appear to be on the list, very odd decision if those that aren’t listed are now dropped…

Could @Team212 clarify the reasoning behind the maximum position size?

As well for the tickers missing from the list? The article mentions “all tickers”.

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Some of the position sizes are quite small for long term holder’s adding to them.

Why have these limits been implemented?

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There are some strange stocks / numbers on the list to be fair.

I mean, we can place a $28m order for AAPL shares, but our maximum position allowed is $1.2m.

What is the rationale for limiting maximum order size/ position size?

I would get it for low liquidity stocks, potentially, but I would far rather have a warning in the app that my holding or order would bring my position to a large % of the average weighted trading volume, and as such may become difficult to sell.

That way users are not limited to how much stocks they can buy? There would be the situation where I buy a stock and trading volume drops, so I could have liquidity issues selling later, but they has always been there.

I don’t think I’ve seen any other broker roll this out, on such a scale so would be good to understand the rationale, particularly on applying this to stocks that are highly liquids.

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How was the maths done on that one?

7500 shares is $1.2M but 1500 shares is $28M?

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A good point. Certain stocks regularly get sudden retail hype and trade millions a day when they’ve typically averaged very small quantities. Clearly a good portion of the T212 audience is going to want to have the option to trade trending stocks and not worry about only being able to trade $100 worth because during this date in August the liquidity was smaller…

This is quite disappointing given that the maximum position size for some of these are less than $100 unless i am misinterpreting the table.

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Hey, everyone.

@Ashige, @Darryl, there are no changes in the maximum order and position sizes of the instruments that are not part of the list. We’ll keep the list up-to-date and add/exclude instruments in case of any changes.

@Zergui, @Scott, @Dougal1984, the decision was taken by the risk management team to be aligned with our risk management policy.

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@Bogi.H Thanks. Does this have any implications on CFD as the title only says ‘ISA/Invest’?

my hunch, is this is not the US aapl but the leveraged shares aapl (see image) and at this point i can see why it would need risk management.

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I think not; if it were, the 1.2M position is still very risky, even on a single user. These markets are just so tiny (daily volume in the 1-10s of thousands).
And it’s comparable to other blue-chip stocks that don’t have leveraged version.

Now, question arises; what risk management policy would lead to that maximum?

A 1.2M, or even 2M position on Apple on a single user ain’t that big of a deal. Can be liquidated without much slippage any day. Now, of course, on a few users all at once… That adds up quickly.

But all these positions are within cash accounts.
So @Bogi.H , what am I missing that would incite a risk of mass liquidation of T212’s users’ cash accounts?

Oh boy, Sasha gonna make a video ain’t he :joy:

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Very risky

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interesting, and there isn’t a leveraged version of this

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The updates only relate to ISA & Invest. No CFD implications.

Any chance you could elaborate further Bogi? Not really sure what to make of this to be honest.

Or get someone from that department to explain what the outcomes are and what exactly you’re trying to placate?

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Very concerning and disapointing update for long term investors (10+ years). I’ve never heard of a cap on position sizes from a broker before (does any other broker have this?), both maximum position size in quantity and value for some of these stocks is very very low. If there’s a cap on position size, I’m left with no choice but to find another broker.

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Would you mind using this as an example, why would ARBK holders only be allowed to hold 13k max position value?

What further risk is involved with allowing investors in Invest or ISA to hold more?

Are these limits coming from the intermediary / IBKR or internal decisions?

Will limits be revised or reviewed and can we request certain tickers to be reviewed?

Would much appreciate a response.

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